Tuesday, September 10, 2013

1 Character, 13 Systems - Part 6: GURPS


    I described my character, Korsanian, in a previous post here
    Time to jump out of the whole D&D dogpile and into something completely different, here's my character in the GURPS system:

Books Used: GURPS Characters (4th ed)
Approximate time to create: 1 hr, 45 min

Korsanian Vambrae  -  Cursed Wood Elf, Wizard
150 point character

Strength  8  [-20]
Dexterity  8  [-40]
Intelligence  14 [80]
Health  8  [-20]

Damage Base: swing 1d-2, thrust 1d-3
Basic Lift: 13 lbs
Hit Points: 8
Will: 14
Perception: 14
Fatigue Points: 26 [6]

Basic Speed: 4
  Dodge- 7
Basic Move: 3 yrds/rnd
Encumbrance:
  None (0)  1-13 lbs
  Light (1)  14-26 lbs  Move 2, Dodge 6
  Medium (2)  27-39 lbs  Move 2, Dodge 5
  Heavy (3)  40-78 lbs  Move 1, Dodge 4
  Extra Heavy (4)  79-130 lbs  Move 1, Dodge 3
Home Gravity: 1G
Water Move: 1
Air Move: 0

Build: 4'2"  60 lbs
Size Modifier: -1
Dwarfism [-15] -1 size mod, -1 basic move, -1 reach in combat, -2 disguise or shadowing in a crowd
Age: 22 yrs old
Appearance: Average

Tech Level: 3 (medieval), starting wealth $1,000
Home Culture: Elvish
Cultural Adaptability [10] ignore penalties in some other cultures
Languages: Elvish (native) [0], Human (accented) [4], Dwarven (accented) [4]

Advantages:
Acute Hearing +2 [4]
Acute Vision +2 [4]
Ally (faelynx)  50% base points (75), appears constantly [8]
Contact Group (Wizards Council of Northwatch)  magical aid, effective skill 12, usually reliable, appears fairly often (9-) [20]
Detect (Magic) occasional [10]
Eidetic Memory (photographic) [10]
Magery (2) [25]

Skills:
Alchemy/TL3-13  [4]
Animal Handling: Big Cats-15  [2]
Area Knowledge (elvish forest)-15  [2]
Area Knowledge (northern kingdom)-15  [2]
Camoflauge-15  [2]
Crossbow-9  [4]
First Aid-15  [2]
Herb Lore/TL3-13  [4]
Melee Weapon (staff)-8  [2]
  Parry-9
Observation-14  [2]
Riding (faelynx)-8  [2]
Search-14  [2]
Survival-14  [2]
Thaumatology-15  [4]
Tracking-14  [2]
Vetrinary-13  [2]

Spells Known:
Analyze Magic-14  [4]  cost 8, time 1 hr
Identify Spell-14  [4]  cost 2
Detect Magic-14  [4]  cost 2, time 5 sec
Counterspell-15  [8]  cost 1/2 the spell being countered-1, time 5 sec

Weapons:
Quarterstaff  1d cr or 1d-1 cr dmg  0, 1 reach  +2 parry  $10  4 lbs  min ST 7
Crossbow  1d+1 imp dmg  Acc 4  Range x20/x25  RoF 1  Shots 1  6/0.06 lbs  $150  min ST 7  Bulk -6
20 bolts

Armor:
none

Gear:
Backpack (small), Blanket, Lantern (burns 24 hrs/pint), Oil (2 pints), Rope 3/8" 10 yrds, Travelers Rations (15 meals), Wineskin, $651
[approx 30 lbs total gear, medium load if all carried]


    So, when you think about making a GURPS character you think, oh my god this is going to take forever.  And it does.  This took as long as almost two other characters.  In part it's that system knowledge thing, I haven't made a GURPS character since the 90s.  In part it's because of the incredible detail and near limitless possibilities.  I will give GURPS this, you can make anything.  So how well did our character come out?  Not too bad actually.  I was able to pick up the skills I wanted.  I did end up duplicating detect magic, I bought it as an Advantage so that I could do it at will, but then I needed to take the spell as a prerequisite for Counterspell.  I wanted to take Dispel Magic that would work on an area, but you had to take 12 spells as a prereq, and I've only got 4.  This is a one-trick character so I didn't take a lot of spells.  Some other quirks: I am still amazed how strength, dexterity and health are all attributes, with only intelligence for non-physical.  Appearance and such is an advantage or skill, which I kind of get, but at the same time it feels lopsided to me (D&D at least has 3 physical and 3 non-physical).  Why is my crossbow damage based on my strength?  Plus why is there an alchemy skill but no alchemy items or creation rules?  And for those of you who don't play, all the skills and numbers are roll-under on 3d6.
    I'm fairly happy with the character overall, but I'm not sure if I gained anything from all these numbers that I was missing in another system.  I was able to get almost exactly the skills I wanted, happy about that.  Magic uses fatigue points, and I bought a lot of them extra, so I can use my limited magic quite a bit more than the 13th Age or D&D-line.  But my big Contacts advantage could be abstracted to a simple d6 roll in 13th Age.  I do like crunch, but this is a little much for me.  I might try playing this character, but I could live happily without ever playing him.

1 Character, 13 Systems - Part 5: d20, Pathfinder and Microlite20


    I described my character, Korsanian, in a previous post here.
    From the old to the new, let's step into the d20 era with Pathfinder, and take a short detour into "d20 lite" with Microlite20:

Books Used: Pathfinder core rulebook, Advanced Race Guide, Advanced Players Guide
Approximate time to create: 70 min

Korsanian Vambrae  -  Cursed Wood Elf, Wizard (level 1)
Alignment: Neutral Good
Favored Class: Wizard (+1 skill pt)

Str  8 (-1)
Dex  8 (-1)
Con  8 (-1)
Int  19 (+4)
Wis  18 (+4)
Cha  11 (0)

HP: 5
AC: 10,  touch 10, flat  10
Saves: Fort  -1,  Ref  -1, Will  +6
immune to sleep, +2 vs enchantment/charm and illusion
BAB: 0, CMB: -2, CMD: 7
Init: -1

Racial Abilities:
Humanoid (elf)
Small size (+1 size AC, +1 size to hit, -1 size CMB/CMD, +4 size Stealth)
Slow speed (20')
Specialized Attributes (+2 Int & Wis, -2 Con)
Linguist (can choose any languages for bonus)
Elven Immunities (immune to sleep, +2 save vs enchantment/charm)
Elven Magic (+2 CL to overcome spell resistance, +2 Spellcraft to identify magic items)
Low-light Vision
Keen Senses (+2 Perception)
Illusion Resistance (+2 saves vs illusions) [this is because he can innately feel magic, and thus realize something is not real but a spell]

Class Abilities:
Arcane Spellcasting
Arcane Bond: Familiar- cat, +3 Stealth, 1 HD (2 HP), Saves +2/+2/+6, +1 natural armor, Alertness feat when within arm's reach
Arcane School: Abjuration/Counterspell- +1 abjuration spell slot/level
Resistance- when prepare spells choose one energy type to gain resist 5
Disruption- melee touch attack, target must make concentration check (DC 15+(spell lvl x 2)) in addition to any other checks, to cast a spell or use a spell-like ability, if fail the spell is wasted, lasts 1 round, usable 7/day
Opposition Schools: evocation & conjuration- takes 2 slots to memorize, -4 to skill checks
Proficient with club, quarterstaff, dagger, lt/hvy crossbow, no armor or shield

Feats:
Scribe Scroll (see magic item creation rules for costs)
Point-blank Shot (+1 to hit and damage w-ranged weapons within 30')

Traits:
Caretaker- +1 Heal and class skill
Militia Veteran - +1 Survival and class skill

Skills:
Craft (alchemy)  1  (+8)
Heal  1  (+9)
Knowledge: Arcana  1  (+8)
Knowledge: Nature  1  (+8)
Linguistics  1  (+8), knows 5 extra languages
Spellcraft  1  (+8, +10 to identify magic items)
Survival  1  (+9)
Stealth  0  (+6)
when familar w/in arm's reach: Perception 0 (+8), Sense Motive 0 (+6)

Weapons:
Quarterstaff  +0 to hit  1d4-1 B dmg  20/x2 crit  double, monk
Light Crossbow  w/in 30' +1 to hit, 1d6+1 P dmg; otherwise +0 hit 1d6 P dmg  19-20/x2 crit  80' range inc
  w/20 bolts

Armor:
none

Gear:
Backpack, Bedroll, Blanket (winter), 10 Candles, Flint & Steel, Lamp (common), Oil (5 pints), Trail Rations (4 days), Rope (hemp) 50', Waterskin, Traveler's Outfit (purchased 1 extra 1st level spell for 20 GP)
4 GP, 7 SP
Load: Light 1-12 lbs, Medium 27-53 lbs, Heavy 54-80 lbs (has 10 lbs weapons, 44 lbs total gear)

Spells/day:
Caster Level: 1 (3 to overcome spell resistance)
0th (DC 14)- 3 + 1 abjuration (not lost when cast)
1st (DC 15)- 2 + 1 abjuration

Spells Known [(a) abjuration spell, (x) opposition school spell]:
0th- Arcane Mark, Bleed, Daze, Detect Magic,Detect Poison, Disrupt Undead, Ghost Sound, Haunted Fey Aspect, Mage Hand, Mending, Message, Open/Close, Prestidigitation, Read Magic, Resistance(a), Touch of Fatigue
1st- Protection From Evil(a), Identify, Break, Vanish, Detect Secret Doors, Memory Lapse, Erase, Comprehend Languages


    Here's where system knowledge comes in handy, it took me 90 min to make the AD&D character since I didn't know my way around the books anymore, but only 70 to do the even more detailed Pathfinder version since I do know those books.  I used the point-buy attribute system, with 20 points total (high fantasy), because I like point-buy better than rolling and since I had a specific character in mind.  I made my own race, tweaking the elf (but paid the same 10 RP as elves) - I had envisioned him being Small size from the effects of the curse [yes, yes, anybody who's read Alpha Flight might realize that the character of Puck was a part of the inspiration, I'll admit it].  Also it let me tweak the attribute bonuses since I wanted all his physical scores to be negative mods.  I kind of like that he has several racial abilities, rather than the one of 13th Age or none in D&D/AD&D, it makes his race seem like a meaningful choice.  Again all I've got is familiar when I want animal companion (both are 1st level abilities so why not swap them?).  Scribe Scroll is totally useless to the character concept.  I wanted him to have some alchemy stuff, but he didn't have enough money (I usually let a character w/the right craft skill buy things at half price (the skill itself says 1/3rd) but even so I didn't have enough money, being a poor wizard).  I'm happy I made a character who can actually shoot his crossbow halfway decently (the 13th Age base d4 and modified by Dex for damage sucked) - I figured as a relatively weak person he'd use a crossbow that didn't rely on his own strength for most of his weapon attacks.  I actually got some halfway decent spells, but the elusive counterspell is still spell level 3/character level 5 (while Pathfinder has rules where you can try to counter a spell, you have to cast the spell you are countering or take a feat to cast a higher-level spell of the same school- both of which make it effectively useless).  He was supposed to know all cantrips but I skipped the opposition school ones.  Gear sure does seem to weigh a lot, he doesn't look like he should be carrying nearly 40 pounds of junk.  I also gave him the maximum first hit die (a fairly common house rule, but I actually maximize both characters and monsters (I hate bothering rolling dice)).
    Overall he did not turn out too bad, better than I had anticipated actually.  By tweaking and layering elements I managed to get him fairly close to the concept.  13th Age still wins for giving him the counterspell ability out of the gate (this version's Disruption ability is close but not quite good enough), so this would be my second choice.  He did take a long time to make, and a lot of books to pull stuff from, but I'm satisfied that I did the best job I could.
    Now, one thing you may have noticed is as we have climbed the D&D evolution chain characters have gotten more and more complex.  However, that is not the way it has to be.  There is a fascinating game called Microlite20 that is based off the 3x/Pathfinder OGL but is way, way simpler.  Mechanically the numbers are about the same, but the level of detail is light-years apart.  So just for comparison, I'm going to present the Microlite20 version of my character below...


Books Used: Microlite20 (advanced rules with Charisma attribute and Survival skill)
Approximate time to create: 10 min

Korsanian Vambrae  -  Cursed Wood Elf, Mage (level 1)

Strength  11 (0)
Dexterity  11 (0)
Mind  19 (+4)
Charisma 16 (+3)

Race: Elf (+2 mind)
Class: Mage (can cast spells, no armor, +3 knowledge)

Skills:
Physical  +1
Subterfuge  +1
Knowledge  +4
Communication  +1
Survival  +1

HP: 6
AC: 10
Init: +0
Melee attack: +1
Missile attack: +1
Magic attack: +5
Fortitude save: Physical + Strength
Reflex save: Physical + Dexterity
Willl save: Mind + level

Magic:
can cast up to 1st level spells, does not have to memorize in advance, spells cost HP to cast-
  0th lvl- 1 HP
  1st lvl- 3 HP
damage from casting cannot be healed normally but is recovered after 8 hrs rest.
Can cast any abjuration, divination or necromancy spell.
Detect Magic (0th level) is a signature spell, can cast for 0 HP
Spell save DC 15

Weapons:
Quarterstaff  1d4 B dmg  20/x2 crit  double, monk
Light Crossbow  1d6 P dmg  19-20/x2 crit  80' range inc
  w/20 bolts

Armor:
none

Gear:
Backpack, Bedroll, Blanket (winter), 10 Candles, Flint & Steel, Lamp (common), Oil (5 pints), Trail Rations (4 days), Rope (hemp) 50', Waterskin, Traveler's Outfit (purchased 1 extra 1st level spell for 20 GP)
4 GP, 7 SP


    Now that's a nicely compacted character sheet.  Microlite gets rid of a lot of stuff, but still manages to keep the essential bits.  I love the spell system of dynamically casting and paying HP for spells, but you pretty much have to use the maximized hit die like I did here.  I rolled a little higher that I liked for Str/Dex, and got a really good Charisma roll, but came out okay.  The skill system is great, roll whatever relevant skill and attribute you think applies.  So remembering things would usually be Knowledge + Mind (which would be a total of +8, the same as most of his skills above), but you could even say Knowledge + Dexterity was to recognize a fighting style, or Knowledge + Strength to feel your way in the dark.  Things are purposefully left open for you to mix and match as you want.  This gives a nice old school feel to a new school game.  Letting Mind effect the to-hit rolls for spells means you don't need the stupid touch AC.  I was impressed when I first found this system and I'd be happy to try playing it, it looks cool.
    How well does it fit the character?  Hmmm... hard to say.  Since things are so generic, it doesn't hit any specific abilities I had in my character description.  But if a GM would let me cast any 1st level spell to counter any other 1st level spell I would be one happy guy and be right on target for the concept.  I do think you need a separate pool of magic points instead of hit points, the more I look at it, and I believe there's a variant that does that.  Still, he feels like a smart guy, on paper at least, so while the fit may not be perfect to the concept, it is close enough to hand-wave the rest of the way.  That's the thing about rules lite games, they depend a lot on the player and GM deciding together how things are going to work.  My only complaint is that I'd like to be able to get his survival skill up a point or two to match his background, you don't have any skill points here, just your class bonus and your level.  Overall, impressive and quick.
    I never did get into the 4th edition of D&D, so I'm afraid the D&D train is going to stop here.  Next time I'll try something different.


P.S.- For anyone keeping count; Microlite20 is based on the same OGL rules as Pathfinder, so they are technically the same system; but 13 also felt like an unlucky number, so while there are 13 systems there are 14 individual games :)

1 Character, 13 Systems - Part 4: AD&D 2nd edition


    I described my character, Korsanian, in a previous post here
    Having looked at him in a D&D-style system, let's go one step up to AD&D 2nd edition:

Books Used: AD&D 2nd ed Player's Handbook, Player's Options: Skills & Powers, The Complete Book of Elves
Approximate time to create: 90 min

Korsanian Vambrae  -  Grey Elf, Wizard (level 1)

Str  10     Weight Allowance 40 lbs, Attack/Damage Adj 0/0, Max Press 115 lbs,
                Open Doors 1-6 (d20), Bend Bars/Lift Gates 2%
Dex  13   Missile Adj 0, React Adj 0, Defense Adj 0
Con 12    System Shock 80%, HP Adj 0, Ressurect Chance 85%
Int  16     Max Spell Lvl 8th, Max # Spells 11, +5 CP, Learn Spell 70%
Wis  14
Cha  14  Loyalty Base +1, # of Henchmen 6, Reaction Adj +2

Background Event: touched by magic

Racial Abilities:
+1 Int, -1 Con
Due to reclusive ways -1 reaction roll w/other elves, -2 other races
Starts w/6 languages of choice
Infravision, 60'
Animal Companion
Secret Doors (detect 1 (d6) in passing, 1-2 searching for secret, 1-3 searching for concealed)
Less Sleep (only requires 4 hrs)
Resistance (90% to sleep and charm effects)
Max MU level 15 (17 w/optional prime requisite rule)

Class Abilities:
d4 Hit Die
2,500 XP needed for next level (+10% to XP earned for Int 16+)
Can memorize- 1st level spells: 1 / day
Access to Schools- Abjuration, Divination, Necromancy only
Detect Magic- 1/day for every 2 levels
Read Magic- 1/day for every 2 levels

Scout kit:
Lower Middle Class
+1 to all NWP checks in wilderness or natural caves
-1 to all NWP checks in urban or dungeon settings

Non-weapon Proficiencies (NWP):
Tracking, Survival, Fire-building, Rope Use, Orienteering, Weather Knowledge, Reading/Writing, Spellcraft, Herbalism

Weapon Proficiencies:
Staff, Light Crossbow

Alignment: Neutral Good

THAC0: 20 (subtract target AC, roll equal or above on d20)
Weapons:
Staff (2H)  1d6 damage

Armor:
none (AC: 9)

Saving Throws (on d20 roll):
Paralyzation, Poison and Death Magic    14+
Rod, Staff or Wand                                   11+
Petrification or Polymorph                       13+
Breath Weapon                                         15+
Spell                                                         12+

Gear (37 lbs total, encumbered at 40 lbs):
Belt, Soft Boots, Hose, Common Robe, Backpack, Belt Pouch (small), 10 Candles, Flint & Steel, Lantern (hooded), Lamp Oil (5 flasks), Rope 50' Hemp, Wineskin, Winter Blanket

Spells/day: 1st level- 1
Spells known:
1st lvl- Cantrip, Chill Touch, Detect Undead, Detect Magic, Identify, Read Magic, Alarm, Protection From Evil


    Wow, this was way more work then I expected.  I wanted to bridge the gap between the old school like D&D original and the new school of picking options, so I went with the Player's Option book to customize the character.  It was kind of good, it let me tighten up some things like only taking 3 of the spell categories (abjuration, divination and necromancy) which fit my character concept - then it went screwy when I failed a few of my rolls to learn spells for the only starting spells I could take (with the limited spell selection I could only take the 8 spells I rolled to start with, but they are not guaranteed, which leaves a conundrum - I just went ahead and gave myself the spells since I couldn't roll for anything else).  I managed to give myself proficiency with the light crossbow, which was something I wanted, but then didn't roll enough starting gold to afford one.  Basically, the mix of point-buy and rolling randomly did not always mesh well.  The non-weapon proficiencies was nice to give him some skills fitting the concept, but the cross-class costs was a pain to calculate.  Back in the day this was also when I remember shifting to rolling 4d6 and dropping the lowest for attributes, so that's what I did here.  Which is nice when you want a better-than-average character, but for this concept I actually wanted some lower than average scores.  So the Str, Dex and Con are all a few points higher than I'd like given the character I was trying to make.  Also I got a good Charisma roll which I suppose works, it at least off-sets his racial penalty.
    Oh yeah, the race was a pain too.  Elves normally get +1 Dex and -1 Con, but I was trying to get my Dex lower, not higher.  So in the Complete Elves book there was the Grey Elves sub-race that got +2 Int +1 Dex -2 Con -1 Str.  Ummm.... better, I wanted the Int bonus, but a total of +/- 3 was a lot more than the default +/- 1 total in the core book.  So I fudged this to +1 Int and -1 Con which I think any DM would be okay with, and also took the racial reaction penalty.  The Scout kit was a nice addition, pretty easy to choose and incorporate, gave me a break on the cost of some of my NWPs (though they were mis-named, apparently the S&P book changed a few of the titles), and I liked how they were not restricted to any class.  The background table was funny since it had "touched by magic" which was a part of my character concept anyways.  And boy am I glad D&D 3.0 and on went to the attribute bonus that gets applied in different places, because all the little fuddly details about each attribute was annoying to write out.  His maximum MU level did go to 15, or 17 w/an optional rule using his high Int, which is a lot better - that's such a high level odds it'll take years of playing to hit it (though the whole idea is still stupid).  Resistance to sleep and charm seem to have taken over the immunity to ghouls from the S&W version, and the resistance makes more sense to me (in this version elves don't really sleep, and being in nature and subject to fae creatures with charm/compulsion effects could have given them the resistance).
    So far this version has taken the longest to make, and it is not terribly better than any of the others.  A little more detail, slightly, very slightly closer to the concept than the Swords & Wizardry version, but a real headache, and I had to 'house rule' a few things to make it work.  I'd have to say that I'm still with 13th Age as the closest version for the least amount of work.

1 Character, 13 Systems - Part 3: Swords & Wizardry


    I described my character, Korsanian, in a previous post here
    13th Age is kind of a mash-up of D&D versions, so let's go back to the roots and look at him in an early D&D system.  I don't have any of my original D&D books anymore, so we'll have to go with a retro-clone.  Let's try the Swords & Wizardry system:

Books Used: Swords & Wizardry core rules
Approximate time to create: 45 min

Korsanian Vambrae  -  Elf, Magic-User (level 1)

Str  9  open doors 1-2, carry mod +5 lbs
Dex 10  missile to-hit +0, armor class +0
Con  10  HP mod +0, raise dead survival 75%
Int  14  languages +4, max spell level 7th, learn spell 65%, min/max spells per level 5/8
Wis  12
Cha  11  max # of special hirelings 4

HP: 4
AC: 9
Base Move: 12
XP needed for next level: 2,500 (+5% earned for Int 13+)
Alignment: Lawful

Saving Throws (d20):
Death Rays & Poison    13+
Wands                            14+
Turned to Stone             13+
Dragon's Breath            16+
Spells & Staffs              15+

Racial Abilities: Darkvision 60', Detect Secret Doors 1-4(d6) searching or 1(d6) not searching, cannot be paralyzed by ghouls

Racial Class Limits: max level 8 Magic-user and max 5th level spells

Magic-user Class Abilities:  No armor or shields, Weapons- dagger, staff, darts only, d4 Hit Die

Weapons:  THAC0- 19+ (on d20, subtract target's AC from number needed)
Staff (2H)  1d6 damage  10 lbs
Dagger  1d4 damage  2 lbs
15 Darts  1d3 damage

Armor: none (AC 9)

Gear: Backpack, Bedroll, 10 Candles, Flint & Steel, Lantern (hooded), Oil (5 pints), Rations (5 days), 50' Hemp Rope, Waterskin

Spells /day: 1st level- 1
Spells Known:
1st (5 of 8 known)- Hold Portal, Light, Read Magic, Shield, Sleep


    Well, as I expected this is quite a change from 13th Age.  I failed the learn spell roll to get Detect Magic, which was the only 1st level spell that was in the character concept.  Dispel Magic is a 3rd level spell, which needs a 5th level Magic-User.  This is one of the things I hated about the original D&D, demihuman level limits.  They are a totally artificial limit that makes no sense whatsoever when you think about them.  I could see denying a class based on race, say that dwarves are so resistant to magic that they cannot become MUs or elves never lie so they can't become Thieves, a whole lot easier than level limits.  Even the demihuman as class was a better mechanic.  That race limit means the Int bonus for 7th level spells is wasted since the elf race limits to only 5th.  Quite annoying to not be able to do something in the rules (conversely being able to do more than the rules is not so bad).  With only 1 spell for the whole day, and looking over the spells I learned (by that 65% chance roll), I have no idea what the hell to bother memorizing.  Hold Portal might be useful in a limited circumstance, Light is kinda useless with all the candles and the lantern he's carrying, Read Magic is just a stupid thing to have as a spell- it makes that whole chicken-and-egg question, Shield is a little useful, Sleep is the only mostly useful spell.  Also, my original attribute roll had Str 9 Dex 12 Con 10 Wis 11 Cha 14 - a dexterous talker and not at all the character I wanted to play.  Being able to swap your stats was a pretty common rule (don't remember if-house or in-game) so I mixed them up here.  And I guess you could stat the faelynx as a hireling to represent his animal companion.
    The thing about a class-based system is that it's a stereotype.  It's a "common" set of abilities in the view of the designer.  If you want to play within that stereotype, great, no problem.  If you have a character idea that's outside that box, well, things go sideways.  For me there is no comparison between this and 13th Age, I would play 13th Age instead.  Even though 13th Age was not an exact match for the idea I had, it came pretty close.  Another noteworthy thing is role-playing details.  You'll notice this character has nothing at all about the character on the sheet.  Contrast to 13th Age with the "one unique thing" and backgrounds and icon relationships. I will say that at least low strength does not limit damage, so this guy hits better without spells.
    As a basic, beginning system this works.  But I honestly don't know how I would even house rule something like the character I want to play.  The old school D&D works a whole lot better when you start without any preconceived notions, just let the dice fall and start riffing off what they give you.  You can actually make some pretty cool characters that way, through that 'emergent gameplay' sort of effect, whereas having a fixed or rigid character concept will usually hinder more than help - so I'll admit this little experiment was not playing to the strength of the system.  Also note that it took me about 45 minutes to make this character.  I'm an old hand at building characters, but I didn't know the book and didn't remember all the rules, so it still took a decent amount of time.

1 Character, 13 Systems - Part 2: 13th Age


    I described my character, Korsanian, in a previous post here
    Now, let's see what he looks like in the 13th Age system:

Books Used: 13th Age core rulebook
Approximate time to create: 1 hr

Korsanian Vambrae  -  High Elf, Wizard (level 1)

Attributes:
Str  8  (-1)
Dex  8  (-1)
Con  8  (-1)
Int  20 (+4)
Wis  18 (+3)
Cha  10  (+0)

Combat Stats:
Hit Points (HP)- 15
Armor Class (AC)- 10
Physical Defense (PD)- 10
Mental Defense (MD)- 16
Initiative- +0
Recoveries- 8 (1d6-1)

One Unique Thing: carries a potent magical curse within his body, locked in his magical gift (which it has warped)

Icon Relationships:
Positive- Great Gold Wyrm (1) like the Wyrm, Korsanian has used his own body to contain an evil, which has earned him some support from the Wyrm's followers
Conflicted- Elf Queen (1) though he is an elf, he has been afflicted by the curse and left his homeland, which has led some elves to look down on him
Negative- The Diabolist (1) Korsanian believes that the curse came from The Diabolist or one of her puppets, he is currently investigating this suspicion

High Elf Racial Power:
Highblood Teleport- 1/battle with a Move-action can place himself at any nearby location he can see

Backgrounds:
High Elf Ranger +4 (tracking, land navigation, survival, identify plants and animals in a forest setting)
Student of Magic +2 (identify magic items, spells, arcane and divine)
Herbalist/Alchemist +2 (make/mix potions, poisons, special consumables)

Feats:
Abjuration increase- Abjuration class talent bonus applies to PD as well as AC

Weapons:
Staff (2H)  +0 to hit  1d6-1 dmg
Dagger (1H)  +0 to hit  1d4-1 dmg
Hand Crossbow (2H)  +0 to hit  1d4-1 dmg

Armor:
none

Gear:
Flint and tinder, Money pouch (small), Backpack, Rain cloak, 5 days Rations, Sleeping roll, Waterskin, Common lantern, 8 hrs Oil, 50' Good rope, Blanket, 10 Candles; 9 GP, 8 SP

Class Abilities:
Cantrips - at-will minor effects like Alarm, Arcane Mark, Ghost Sound, Knock, Light, Mage Hand, Mending, Prestidigitation, Spark
Cyclic Spells - spells with the Cyclic descriptor can be cast 1/battle, but are not used up for that battle when cast if the escalation die is even
Overworld Advantage - when in the Overworld all Daily spells become Recharge 16+
Ritual Magic - can cast out of combat ritual spells

Class Talents:
High Arcana - can memorize 2 daily spells, gain bonus spell "Counter-magic"
Wizard's Familiar - small animal, not normally tracked in combat; Counter-bite (1st foe to hit Korsanian in a battle takes auto 1d4 dmg); Scout (1/day can scout ahead)
Abjuration (feat-enhanced) - when casting a Daily spell gains +4 to AC and PD until the end of his next turn

Spells: (1st level slots- 5)
x2 Blur [Daily] target self or other; for rest of battle (or 5 min) all attacks have 20% miss chance against target (this is described as him absorbing some of the luck/random energy around/near the target, which is why he gets the Abjuration bonus with this spell (since the absorbed energy acts as a sort of armor))
Debilitating Field (aka Color Spray) [Cyclic] 1d4 nearby enemies in a group; Int + lvl vs MD; on hit does 2d8 psychic damage, targets with less than or equal to 10 HP after attack are Weakened until end of Korsanian's next turn (this is described as him draining the life/innate magic of anyone nearby)
Shield [Recharge 11+] free action, self; attacker must re-roll a to hit roll (this is a mild drain of life/magic, just enough to distract instead of damage)
Counter-magic [1/battle] Int + lvl vs MD of a creature casting a spell; if hits cancel the spell and creature loses the action to cast it, if the spell had a limited use subtract one charge if the natural attack roll was even (this is what holding the curse has done to his gift, he absorbs magic instead of letting it go in spell form)


    Given that this character idea came from the first 13th Age character I made, it's not surprising that the system does a pretty good job of making him.  I originally wanted him to be a Wood Elf, since they would be the ones logically patrolling the forest, but the 13th Age Wood Elf racial power did not really fit with the character, and the attribute bonus didn't work either.  Speaking of attributes, I used the point-buy method (28 pts total) to make his attributes, so that I would get exactly what I wanted and not the random luck of the dice.
    If possible, with the GM's permission, I would modify him a little bit.  The Ranger talent for an Animal Companion works better than the Wizard Familiar - the familiar does not really take part in combat, while the animal companion does/can.  Since Sovan, his pet, only fights in his defense and not as a general party warrior, I'd ask if I could swap familiar for companion.  I'd be willing to give up his feat for that exchange, the Abjuration class trait and feat is okay, it makes his Blur spell more defensive, but it's not totally within my character concept.  I would also be willing to swap the feat for Linguist if it was relevant to the campaign, since he was supposed to have studied the outside world for some time before leaving the forest.  I like the Ranger's Track class talent (and it's terrain stunt feature), it seems like something he might have (a leftover bit of his ranger training) and again I'd be willing to swap out something for it.
    I really don't like the ritual magic, the character idea is that he negates magic not actually, actively, casts it, so it doesn't quite fit.  Likewise the Cantrips class ability is not quite what I had imagined, though you could say that those minor magics are all the power he has left to actively effect the non-magical world.  I have no idea what the hell the Overworld Advantage is good for, it seems pretty limited.  Abjuration is also a throw-away ability and feat, it kind of works and I can sort of see how I described it, but I'm not sure what real use it is (except under limited circumstances).  I really wish his Counter-magic could work more often, it's the center point of the character concept, at least Cyclic would be nice instead of only once a battle (and the Abjuration effect would go a lot better with it instead of Blur).  I was proud of myself for re-defining Color Spray to be something useful, but Shield was a stretch.  There were also other spells he could have taken: the Utility spell, Acid Arrow, Charm Person, Magic Missile, Ray of Frost, and Shocking Grasp but none of them fit with his concept, so his spell selection is very, very limited (more so than the already limited spells in the book).  I wanted his Herbalism/Alchemy background to give him some other combat options, but sadly there is no list of alchemy items like with Pathfinder.
    Overall he's not bad.  Close enough to my concept that I'd like to try playing him.  Wish there were a few more spells, maybe something along the "detect" lines that I'd also like to be capable of, but oh well.

1 Character, 13 Systems - Part 1: The Character


    The game 13th Age recently came out, and my best friends turned me on to it.  It is interesting, a mash-up of all the D&D versions with a few other more modern conventions thrown in for spice.  I liked it overall, based on a read-through only (not in a position to game with my friends right now).  I decided to make a character for it (and being me made a wizard) because making a character tells you a lot about a system.
    Then, being me, I had a crazy idea: why not make the same character for several different systems?
    I have a rather large library of games, why not make one character and see how it twists and turns between different incarnations.  Why?  Because it's there :)  Okay, because I'm  a crazy guy who likes making characters and tinkering with games.  Plus I've got enough time on my hands to do it.
    So, here is part one of a rather long series.  In honor of 13th Age sparking this crazy idea I am going to make one character in 13 different RPG systems.  To begin with, I'm going to write out the somewhat detailed history and abilities of this character I have envisioned.  This is our baseline.  I do not want him to be incredibly powerful nor a useless wimp.  I want to stay as close to this story and description of abilities as I can.  So without further ado...

    Born to the Wood Elves of the Great Northern Forest, Korsanian Vambrae came from a long line of sorcerers and wizards.  Yet while magic ran in his blood, he did not choose to follow in his father's footsteps and become a wizard.  As a devout believer in Lallamadan-Hartoo, the dualistic male/female elven deity of nature, Korsanian decided to become a Forest Ranger and protect the land from the vile demons that spewed out of the darkness of the Northern Wastes.  Being strong and quick of body and mind, he soon finished his training and began his first patrol circuit.
    Being only a junior Ranger, his first patrol was of the Southern edges of the Great Forest, an area not under constant attack like the North.  Korsanian did not mind this, realizing one had to walk before running.  He, as customary for a Ranger, befriended a faelynx whom he named Sovan.  Together the pair watched the border with the Humans and other races, mostly observing the few trade caravans and travelers.
    After a short handful of years Korsanian's fairly peaceful apprenticeship came to a painful end.  At first he thought it was a blight, one of those rare but not unheard-of times when sickness would spread through the trees.  Quickly he realized it was something more sinister.  Sending Sovan to get help, he decided to investigate the strange illness that was spreading unnaturally fast through the forest's edge.  While not apprenticed as a Wizard, he nonetheless knew enough of magic to realize some dark curse was spreading through the land and killing the forest.  His investigation revealed that it was not just killing, it was poisoning everything it touched.  Even if the curse was dispelled the damage would remain to the plants, animals that ate them, and the earth and water.  Desperate, faced with something beyond his meager abilities, Korsanian prayed for help.  Lallamadan-Hartoo heard and answered Korsanian's prayers.  He could sacrifice himself, and from the purity of his sacrifice the land would be cleansed and he would be forever remembered as a hero - or, he could take the curse upon himself, becoming crippled and twisted, to seek out the source of the curse, and stopping it's originator from doing any more harm.  It was an easy choice.  Whatever had attacked the forest once could do so again.  Even if it meant being damaged, and having to leave his home, Korsanian could not rest so long as he knew such a terrible menace existed to the land and people he loved.  He agreed to take the curse upon himself.
    His father and a pack of Rangers found him a short time later.  They did not recognize him at first.  His body had shrunken and twisted, he no longer even looked like an elf.  His natural strength and dexterity and hardiness from living the Ranger's demanding lifestyle was gone.  Now he was frail and slow and sickly.  But as is common with the Gods, what was a curse on one hand turned out to be a blessing on another.  The curse had changed Korsanian's natural gift of magic.  It heightened his perceptions, he could now feel the flows of magic with just a thought.  And, while he could no longer cast spells, he discovered that he could devour them.  Instead of making magic, he now fed on it.  This feeding did not make him stronger or better, his body would always be stunted, but it allowed him a rare gift.  Eager to go out into the world and seek the source of his troubles, his father reigned in the headstrong young man.  Several years were spent preparing, with Korsanian learning all the elves knew of the outside world, and all he could of magic and alchemy.  Sovan, ever the loyal faelynx, never left his side, and Korsanian trained his ally to be his protector: and now mount since his body had shrunk so much.
    Finally prepared, the duo headed out of the forest and to the South.  Korsanian could absorb any hostile magic, and he carried some alchemical tricks to defend himself with in an emergency.  Sovan was his legs, and would stay close to protect him as a last resort.  Soon they would meet with other adventurers and begin to learn the secrets of the curse and its origin.


    So, there is my character idea.  To overview, here's a list of the main things I want him to be/do:

⦁    Physically Weak but Mentally Strong - it's the wizard cliche, I know, but he's a big brain in a small body.  He was smart as a ranger, and his innate magic sense helps him notice and figure things out now that's he been forced into becoming a bookworm.
⦁    A Magic-user who Doesn't Cast Spells - this is the opposite of the cliche, while he has magic he doesn't actively use it.  His main job in the party is to negate enemy spellcasters and magical threats.  If he could temporarily suppress magic items too that would be cool.  The low-levels of magic he constantly absorbs from the environment means he can detect anything magic, which I could see extending to living things and possibly non-living as well.  Perception and Protection, those are the strengths he brings to the group.
⦁    Needs Something to do in Combat - I'd like him to still be useful in combat even against non-magical foes.  Something like a few alchemical bombs, or even just being able to be a distraction.  He can't draw too much ire since he's weak, but he still needs something to do.
⦁    Has an Animal Companion/Familiar - the faelynx Sovan is his friend, mount and protector.  Now, Sovan is special, so he won't be going toe to toe with any monsters, the faelynx just stays close to Korsanian to protect him.

    Now, let's see what different games can make of him.  To begin with, we'll go to the game that inspired him, 13th Age...

Wednesday, September 4, 2013

Heroics, Randomness, and a rambling post


    Read this comment to a post on RetroRoleplaying and just had to write a post of my own on it:

TheShadowKnows said...
    I guess you're right and my point of view is too different. To me a truly "heroic feat" is something like getting lucky, rolling max damage, and killing an ogre with a single blow. Or taking out the master vampire with a lucky use of Dispel Evil. It's not really something you can plan in advance by putting "Cleave" (or whatever) on your character sheet. If it's that dry and predictable, it seems neither really heroic nor like a feat to me.
    True story: in one of my AD&D campaigns the a party of 6 3rd and 4th level characters encountered four bugbears. It should have been a decent fight but not a potential TPK. Instead, they all rolled HORRIBLY and I rolled well, and in a couple rounds five of them were down and bleeding to death. The only uninjured character, a 4th level dwarf fighter, had to take on four bugbears singlehandedly. He proceeded to do just that, killing all of them in six rounds while suffering NO hits himself (and with no fudging from me - his AC was really low and my luck went sour). Although one of his companions had already bled to death, he was able to save four of the five. This was truly an HEROIC FEAT which the players were still talking about YEARS later. I struggle to imagine a mechanical system for resolving feats that would produce anything so memorable. Does anybody really talk fondly about "the time they used Defensive Strike"? If it's written down on the sheet, that's pretty much EVERY time, right? So how much impact does it have, really?


    This is the whole dice vs choices thing, that says something to me - it's about the mix of randomness and the meaning of choice and consequence. The Alexandrian had another post on a cool game session where the players pushed combat against foes who were not meant to be fought and got a really lucky string of rolls off - and again, while this is noteworthy, it's just luck.  It isn't the brilliant or skilled choices of the player, it's the luck of the Gods of the Dice.  So it is really that special, or, maybe a better question is: is it really that meaningful?
    This makes me think of my favorite MMO character, my Warden in The Lord of the Rings Online.  The Warden is a unique class in MMOs because instead of having each ability mapped to a button, they have a few core abilities that when combined properly produce a special effect.  That is (for those of you who have never played one), a warden has the spear, shield and yell (it's a picture of a fist, but you actually yell, don't know why there's the disconnect); you combine 2 to 5 to form a Gambit.  Spear-Spear makes a gambit that does one strike for extra damage.  Spear-Spear-Spear makes a gambit that does multiple attacks.  The Spear-Spear-Spear-Spear gambit is multiple attacks and a short-term bonus to parry.  Mixing them creates different effects.  Spear-Shield attacks and heals you a little, Spear-Yell attacks and generates extra threat.  And so on and so on.  There are dozens of gambits total.  The thing is, I the player am the one who has to remember them.  I the player have to hit them in the right order.  And I the player have to think ahead, since each gambit builder takes a second to execute, and the gambit itself takes another second, so my special ability is going to take place about 3 to 6 seconds down the road - which can be a long time in combat.  I love the class because it challenges me as a player more than the straight button-mashing of most MMO classes.
    The advantage though is that my Warden has been able to do things none of my others characters would dare attempt.  My first character was a tank, a Guardian, and in the low levels there is a quest to kill a bandit leader.  Problem is that he has friends, so the second you attack him you get mobbed.  My Guardian was slaughtered.  After a few tries, carefully luring him away from his buddies, I managed to defeat him.  My Warden however walked in, killed him, his friends, the other guys who wandered into the fight, and the guys who respawned too close.  By very carefully choosing and layering my gambits I was able to take out 9 or so guys who were all my level.  I've taken on elite monsters, who are levels above their rating, who were higher level than me to begin with (think of it as a 1st level fighter defeating a 6th level opponent one-on-one).  And all of that was by me watching the fight, shoring up what I needed (buffing my defense, then starting a heal over time, then hitting, little more heal, little more hitting, defense wore off so re-buff it, etc...) as the fight progressed.  It took some luck, but it also took a decent amount of skill.

    It's not just about skill though, it's also about choices.  Extra Credits did a great video talking about choices.  They point out that there are calculations and there are choices and the two get confused.  If there is one best way to do something, obvious or not as that way may be, then it is not a choice, it is a calculation.  Like making the best build for an MMO character.  A choice is something that has consequences.  What I like about my warden is that time is the consequence.  Once I commit myself to executing a gambit it takes time that I'm committed to, which I can't use to do something else.  Each gambit only does one thing (though higher level ones splash a little of a second), so an attack gambit does damage but not a lot of healing or threat generation.  So which do I need more right now, against this monster and with this group?  Which am I going to need?  Since it's hard to change or give up a gambit I'm building that trade-off makes a real choice.  Depending on the circumstances, that coice may not be very important though.  Fighting lower-level monsters I am not worried about the damage they can do, so I don't work my healing as much.  Fighting solo I don't care at all about generating threat since I'm not trying to shield anyone else.  In a group I don't care as much about damage since I'm just keeping everybody's attention while my Burglar friend is stabbing them in the back or my Hunter friend is filling them full of arrows.  So not all choices are always equal, depending on the situation.

    But choice is critical because of something mentioned in the comment I started my ramblings with: being heroic.  What is being heroic?  Is it being lucky or being good?  Let me illustrate with some fiction.  How heroic is this...
    Alvus the Wizard looked at the snarling Orc coming to kill him.  His friends lay on the floor, dying all around him.  A normally challenging fight had gone horribly awry.  The Orcs had shrugged off his spells, and the blows of his companions, and now they were down and he was about to die.
    He closed his eyes and swung his staff, catching the Orc off-guard and knocking it out.  Angered, the other Orcs moved in to attack.  One stumbled over a body on the ground, pushing the other one who was dodging out of the way into Alvus' swing instead.  The remaining Orc bellowed and charged, Alvus backed up and didn't realize he was so close to the wall of the cave.  The Orc, moving too quickly to stop itself, was impaled on Alvus' staff that was unintentionally braced against the cave wall.
    Saying a quick prayer to the Goddess of Luck, he ran to help his companions.


...compared to this...
    Alvus the Wizard looked at the snarling Orc coming to kill him.  His friends lay on the floor, dying all around him.  A normally challenging fight had gone horribly awry.  The Orcs had shrugged off his spells, and the blows of his companions, and now they were down and he was about to die.
    As a follower of the Left-handed Path he was always taught to use magic with logic and reason.  To see the wonders of magic as just a tool, a way to influence the world.  Many tales were told of the old days, of the warmages who mixed magic and passion - of the cities turned to smoking ruins, the dead and dying, the groaning of reality as they clashed for dominance.  Passion was power, but it was also a drug, and casting in anger damaged the soul.
    Looking again at his dying friends, he decided that if his soul was the price for their lives it was a good enough bargain.  The angry red flames coalesced in his hands, and he threw them in a sheet of fire that obliterated the Orcs.  He felt something twist inside him, but pushed the thought aside as he ran to help his companions.


...?

    On the one hand you have the dice, just the luck of the draw.  On the other hand you have choices - because every choice has consequences.  Which of the two sounds more heroic to you?  Which should be more memorable?  Which should have some sort of lasting implication/impact?
    I talked in an older post about role-playing vs character-playing.  This is an extension of that post I guess, though I didn't originally intend it to be.  I've read lots of posts and comments talking about role-playing vs roll-playing, and randomness can produce those moments, as the comment above mentioned, that people will talk about for years afterwards.  And yet, it isn't the skill of the players, or anything they did, it was just luck.  Like winning a jackpot from a slot machine is something you'll talk about for years but is not indicative of any skill or worthiness on your part - it was just luck.  And we all like to get lucky, don't get me wrong.  But this is roll-playing, just relying on the dice.  It is not anything to be proud of, is not a reflection of the great ideas or choices you made.

    Let me throw an anecdote at you, to maybe help me illustrate what I'm thinking:
    A while ago (by which I mean a year or so) I was GMing our Pathfinder campaign.  We ended up deciding to make a one-shot adventure using some new characters who were built just for the heck of it.  Two of my characters were run by my friends Aaron and Matt.  Aaron was playing Po-po, the drunken master monk who was a panda-like race (forget the name).  Matt was playing a cat-race Sorcerer with the Plant Bloodline (he was a jungle cat, can't think of the character's name).  I forget who else was playing (think it was just Sara, not sure - getting old is hell when your memory stunk to begin with).  For these spur-of-the-moment games with random characters I have a very simple formula: I pick 5 groups of monsters and think of a reason why the players would run into all of them.  I decided to make this a tangent of our main campaign and had the players sneak into the city of evil necromancers and then sneak out (think they were rescuing somebody).  I picked some stock monsters, and decided to make the final fight a sort of boss fight.  So I hand-crafted two unfettered eidolons who would give the party a real tough fight.  It took me at least 45 minutes to make them, while the players were finishing their characters.
    The first three fights went as I expected.  The party made it in, defeated all opponents, and then started heading out.  They were sneaking out of the sewers and came out in a city park, where they were going to switch to a different sewer line to get to the outskirts of town and the carriage waiting to take them home.  With glee I described the elementals coming down the tunnels after them as they came out to the fresh air of the park.  Then, Matt looked at his character sheet, looked at me, and said, "I can make us look like trees."
    My first thought was, what?
    Turns out one of his bloodline powers could make the whole party look like trees, which would blend into the park quite nicely.  So I looked at my elementals.  They had perception scores of -1.  Just for the hell of it, I decided that if one of the elementals rolled a natural 20 it would figure out the illusion.  The highest I rolled was a 12, I think.  So the elementals, in a "which way did he go" moment, all wandered off.
    Okay, well played, but I still have one more trick up my sleeve.  Back in the sewers and again the party can hear the sounds of persuit.  My babies, the unfettered eidolons I spent all that time designing, were getting closer.  When Aaron looks at his character sheet and says, "I can make a wall."
    ......
    Sure enough, he has a special ability to create things, and he can make them out of stone and be so thick.  I break out the core rulebook, look at the hardness of stone and hit points of so many inches, and then I take the average damage of the attacks the eidolons had to figure how many turns they would be slowed down.  So as the party runs I tell them after so many seconds they hear the wall break and screams of frustration.
    When Aaron tells me, "I can do that three times a day."
    .....................
    So I describe their escape, and gave them the xp for the encounters as a reward for the creative use of abilities.

    The thing about that story, is that it was a combination of luck and skill.  My players were lucky to pick the characters who had those abilities, and then skilled enough to think outside the box and apply them at the right moments.  That was maybe not heroic, but close enough.  It was something they could be proud of, and even though it knocked out the work I did, I don't mind.  I love it when my players come up with something creative, even as I was shaking my head in disbelief.  That, to me, was the proper use of randomness/luck.  Luck is fine, luck is good, when you capitalize on it, when you have some sort of input to make it work.  The original comment, with the lucky and unlucky rolls, did not have any real contribution from the player.  Any character can roll lucky and have the GM roll poorly and it doesn't matter who's involved (a natural 20 hits regardless of class/race/whatever).  But for my players above, only the Plant Sorcerer had that ability and only the panda-race guy had that ability, and it was luck as a consequence of their choices.  Not perfect, because it was still luck and not a choice, but way, way better in my opinion than just luck alone.
    I think the term I want is "emergent gameplay."  Unexpected consequences.  Where luck and randomness create those moments, those "happy accidents" to quote Bob Ross, I like it.  But when it's all random, just the luck of the draw or Gods of the Dice, that really doesn't appeal to me.

    I think this is a part of why I like crunch.  Extremely rules-lite systems, like original D&D, just seem to general, too dependent on the player to think of something clever.  Having some detail helps to springboard a creative way to use an ability, rather than having to think it up from scratch.  Now, I will quickly admit that having too many rules makes it impossible to figure out what the heck you can do, like the bazillions of feats in 3.5/Pathfinder.  But a system like Ars Magica's spellcasting- here are some bits, add them together however you want/need- that seems like a happy medium.
    I guess this whole rambling discourse is really only meaningful because I'm designing a game myself.  Working on Travellers Beyond has forced me to ask myself how much detail, in what places, how much randomness and what choices, to work into the rules.  It does explain to me a little more why I like some of the games I do, and dislike the ones I do - but I don't think I have any terribly deep insight to offer here.  What can I say, sometimes you just read something and you have to comment on it.